Crucial time in the Senate for a sweeping health care reform bill that will be the first step towards creating a functional and humane health care system for nearly all of our citizens. When it is done, we will be the last, unbelievable as it seems, the LAST industrialized country to have such a system. Unfortunately, this first step will not be all it should, in large part because of the cynical obstructionism of conservatives who ignored the obvious and growing problems with our system for twelve years, and have lied to the American people every step of the way as our courageous president finally insists that we face and deal with these problems.
Transparent Republican lies about the proposals:
1. It will add to our deficit. This is blatantly false. The bill is completely paid for, and according to the CBO will actually reduce the deficit a bit in the first ten years and will reduce it dramatically in the second ten years.
2. It’s a “government takeover” of our system. This is ridiculous. Most folks will continue to get their health care from the same provider as now, and the principle added role of the government will be seeing to it that profit-gorged insurance companies provide better and fairer service, with no rescissions or cancellations for job moves, pre-existing conditions, limits on coverage, etc. Everyone, including those screaming the loudest, will benefit from these long-needed changes.
3. It will create “death panels.” Most everyone but Sarah Palin now understands this was nonsense from the beginning, simply providing for coverage for end-of-life counseling that ALL health care professionals value and recommend, coverage that was suggested by many Republicans before they realized they might get some obstructive effect from lying about this, too.
4. The Medicare “cuts” will hurt seniors. No, what’s being cut is the huge and completely unnecessary expenditure of tax dollars on Medicare Advantage, which is a giveaway to insurance companies because it doesn’t provide any better coverage that everyone else gets on standard Medicare. Could this mean that Republicans aren’t so worried about government waste after all?
One Republican claim that has a measure of truth, but is still cynically misleading is that the reforms currently being considered would mean that middle and higher income Americans will have to pay more for premiums than they do now. This is, in fact, true. But given that premiums have been doubling every ten years anyway, the planned reforms certainly won’t result in higher premiums than would have occurred anyway.
Day after day, we see Republicans making these dishonest claims with straight faces, surely one of the most repulsive and nauseating spectacles in recent memory, given the importance of this reform. Why are they lying? It’s because if Americans understood the truth about the urgent need for reform and the profound benefits of the planned bills in congress, everyone would agree with Obama and would be appalled at the irresponsibility and intellectual poverty of the deservedly fading Republican party, and the party membership would be reduced to fringe loons like Beck, Hannity, Savage and their ilk.
Don’t make me turn that into a song. ^ ^
That was an important reminder during this holiday season, that due to uhh lack of healthcare coverage, Obama’s mother was turned away from uhh number of hospitals, and was ultimately forced to give birth in uhh manger.
Acorvid, I believe you’ve overdosed on your courageous presidents hype.
@Acorvid
Dude, stop believing in stuff. If you study politics for more then a week you should be so jaded that you will never mention it again. Your precious bill will do nothing but make life slightly more painful, just like every other bill or law ever passed.
Forgot to mention:
I am re-doing my computer today. Re-installing ubuntu and Fedora. building from source all my programs, backing up all my data, should be fun.
Scott, Gary, DJ, Isiah,
These things matter profoundly. Social security legislation made a huge difference in securing a basic income for retirees. Before Medicare, a high percentage of American seniors with health problems lived out their last years in poverty. Before sweeping civil rights legislation, tens of millions of Americans were denied access to the basic human rights supposedly guaranteed by the constitution. Without environmental legislation, our streams and lakes would, by now, be fishless and unswimmable, and air in our cities would be unbreathable. Health care reform has the potential for a comparable effect.
Like it or not, the facts are that our current health care system is badly broken, getting worse yearly, and unsustainable. If you are blase about it, you haven’t been bludgeoned by it yet, with “yet” being the operable word, or you aren’t paying attention, or you just don’t care. Of course Obama’s not perfect, but he’s finally dealing with issues too long ignored. I respect and honor him for it, and I hope he succeeds. You, too, will benefit from health care reform, whether you support it or not.
I read this quote the other day and immediately thought of someone who comments in here at length – “Why is it that some people believe their argument is made stronger by making personal atttacks on others with a different view?”…
All I can say is, If the rest of the industrial countries system is so great, why do their leaaders always go to America when they get sick or need medical service? Could it have something to do with the quality of care available at home?
Acorvid I have 4 employees plus myself that will be joining the unemployed when this bill goes into effect. i was getting ready to start another company that would have employed another 2 – 3 people that is on hold tell the outcome of this vote. the bills restrictions and involuntary requirements on small businesses make it imposable to stay in business.
after i louse my business and louse my house can i move my family of 6 in with you since this wont effect you or whoever you work for.
how many out there can live on half your present income with 50% – 60% taxes that’s what you will get to take home.
PS my spell-check thinks your name should be acorn i thought that was funny. no disrespect intended.
^^^^lose X2 ^^^^^^ spell-check Loused it up. i am the product of public schools.
I read this quote the other day and immediately thought of someone who comments in here at length – “Why is it that some people believe their argument is made stronger by making personal atttacks on others with a different view?”…
Are you relating this to me, Richard? What “personal attacks” do you mean, and if so, why are you choosing to make a personal attack instead of responding to my arguments, and what does that say about you? As a matter of fact, relating to social issues and political leaders, aren’t you all about personal attacks?
“All I can say is, If the rest of the industrial countries system is so great, why do their leaders always go to America when they get sick or need medical service? Could it have something to do with the quality of care available at home?”
In general, this is the kind of nonsense promulgated by the naysayers who are willing to let our system deteriorate even further as long as it furthers their political goals. It is true that some of the most sophisticated surgery and equipment is available in the US (although a high percentage of Americans can’t afford it), and it’s true that wealthy foreigners sometimes come here to take advantage of it. But for every foreigner who comes here for access to sophisticated procedures, hundreds of Americans travel to Mexico or Canada or Asia for surgery because, even after their travel expenses, their medical expenses are less than they would be in this country, even with insurance.
A L N,
My understanding was that real small businesses with very few employees were likely to be exempt from the new law. Not sure about that, but I recall reading that somewhere.
Who farted?
This is better than Facebook. Full moon? LOL
Acorvid – You are one pompous ass, dude… Why should I try to have a discussion with somebody who thinks that the Democrats and Republicans are fighting over healthcare because they want a healthier America? It’s all about enslaving more people to the imperial federal government, and getting votes from the non-producers.
ALN – You might consider doing what I did with my company. I ran the numbers and decided that it was more economic to get rid of my 14 employees and hire temps. It has enabled me to keep on keeping on…
Honest I cant get myself to care. The government sucks and will just screw this up as much as it screws anything else up. The same people who brought us the DMV, the potholes in the roads, FEMA, and the last war are now going to be in-charge of our medical care. So I am not going to sit here and pretend that it can work, or pretend that if I get really involved in the political process I can make it work. It will fail, too me its only a question of how badly and what I can do to protect myself personally.
Leslie – Sure, if you’d like. Where do you want to meet?
Over paid arrogant people that run this country that will have free healthcare till they die dont care about anyone but themselves. I agree with isiah. Acor, if you wasnt so closed minded and long winded people would tolerate you better. But on a serious note, where’s Gus been?
Seems members of Congress refuse to give up the coverage they have and to be covered by the proposed legislation that they plan to force on the citizenry.
Had to work so I’m late to the party, but it seems that no one was able to specifically dispute Acorvid’s 4 specific points with anything except insults or generalities. It’s completely astounding to me how many seemingly intelligent people can blindly follow talking points, without any basis of fact in what they are espousing.
Instead of making members of Congress give up their health care, why don’t we require Congress to give all Americans access to the same health care as it exists today?
Shhhh, I think everybody in the east has gone to sleep.
Lets all ban politics…it has no place here.Keep it funny and amusing,thats why we come here…i’m sorry America but the rest of the world couldnt give a rats arse about your politics.I am sure there are different and more suitable places to ring the bell about politics…there ive said it,now go and play.
I’ll keep digging jonco, trying to sort threw this bill has been hard. my democrat senator from Idaho said he was voting against it because he and his staff cant figure out all the confusing language in the bill. and the parts they can figure out will kill the economy in our state. I will be voting for him in the next election. he gets back to me within 1 day when i email a question of concern about a bill. he votes fiscal conservative and i respect a man that votes for his constituency and not just the party line.
P in B i agree with your last statement. they should get SSI for retirement, salary that is the average for the area they represent and only 2 terms.
tdc,
One of the more appealing aspects of B&P is that, on occasion, there is a spirited, interesting discussion on events of the day. For the most part, these are held with minimal name calling, and minimal mind changing, but I find them stimulating. I’m sure some of the regulars here who have the wrong opposing points of view will agree with me. Sure, we all come for the humor, but all play fairly well together in this sand box.
You want only humor? Spend your time at http://mystupidjokes.com/
pib – I agree with you definitely. Your posts are always civil and thoughtful. It’s “you know who” who doesn’t understand that comments don’t need to include “ridiculous”, blatantly”, “ignorant”, “nonsense”, etc., to make a point. I just find him to be insulting and predictible.
P in B – Every once in a while I find something you and I can agree on, and your last comment (7:11am) is one of them. All Most of us are adults here, and we can gather, laugh, agree or disagree, shake hands, have a beer, and then talk about all the B&P Gals again.
tdc – This isn’t just a humor site…At the top of this page, click on the tab that says “About Bits & Pieces” and read Jonco’s first two paragraphs.
This is the place where you can talk about anything and everything. 
The number is way, way down, but I’m still getting those durn B&P comments forwarded to my email address. Anyone else still getting them?
Just sittin’ here tryin’ to think of sumpthin to say…DO DAH, DO DAH
Wrackin’ my brain and hopin’ it’ll come out to play… OH DO DAH DAY
Richard, I had one or two yesterday but that’s about it.
By the way, every other word you type is surrounded by parentheses ( )….dunno
Anyone here. just back from shopping nearly organised for xmas Hooray!
So Hanukkah is in like less than a week and I barely have any of the gifts I need! Gaaahhh!!!
How about making the flockdraw a sticky post today. I had fun with that last night.
Update on the giraffe with the twisted neck at the Tulsa zoo.. Unfortunately she died the other day.
^ Well that was a nasty turn of events.
Yeah kinda puts a lump in your throat doesn’t it?
Here is the latest Tiger Woods game…
Funny! (well, I think so!)
http://marcywrites.com/2009/12/the-newest-tiger-woods-game/
Crucial time in the Senate for a sweeping health care reform bill that will be the first step towards creating a functional and humane health care system for nearly all of our citizens. When it is done, we will be the last, unbelievable as it seems, the LAST industrialized country to have such a system. Unfortunately, this first step will not be all it should, in large part because of the cynical obstructionism of conservatives who ignored the obvious and growing problems with our system for twelve years, and have lied to the American people every step of the way as our courageous president finally insists that we face and deal with these problems.
Transparent Republican lies about the proposals:
1. It will add to our deficit. This is blatantly false. The bill is completely paid for, and according to the CBO will actually reduce the deficit a bit in the first ten years and will reduce it dramatically in the second ten years.
2. It’s a “government takeover” of our system. This is ridiculous. Most folks will continue to get their health care from the same provider as now, and the principle added role of the government will be seeing to it that profit-gorged insurance companies provide better and fairer service, with no rescissions or cancellations for job moves, pre-existing conditions, limits on coverage, etc. Everyone, including those screaming the loudest, will benefit from these long-needed changes.
3. It will create “death panels.” Most everyone but Sarah Palin now understands this was nonsense from the beginning, simply providing for coverage for end-of-life counseling that ALL health care professionals value and recommend, coverage that was suggested by many Republicans before they realized they might get some obstructive effect from lying about this, too.
4. The Medicare “cuts” will hurt seniors. No, what’s being cut is the huge and completely unnecessary expenditure of tax dollars on Medicare Advantage, which is a giveaway to insurance companies because it doesn’t provide any better coverage that everyone else gets on standard Medicare. Could this mean that Republicans aren’t so worried about government waste after all?
One Republican claim that has a measure of truth, but is still cynically misleading is that the reforms currently being considered would mean that middle and higher income Americans will have to pay more for premiums than they do now. This is, in fact, true. But given that premiums have been doubling every ten years anyway, the planned reforms certainly won’t result in higher premiums than would have occurred anyway.
Day after day, we see Republicans making these dishonest claims with straight faces, surely one of the most repulsive and nauseating spectacles in recent memory, given the importance of this reform. Why are they lying? It’s because if Americans understood the truth about the urgent need for reform and the profound benefits of the planned bills in congress, everyone would agree with Obama and would be appalled at the irresponsibility and intellectual poverty of the deservedly fading Republican party, and the party membership would be reduced to fringe loons like Beck, Hannity, Savage and their ilk.
Don’t make me turn that into a song. ^ ^
That was an important reminder during this holiday season, that due to uhh lack of healthcare coverage, Obama’s mother was turned away from uhh number of hospitals, and was ultimately forced to give birth in uhh manger.
Acorvid, I believe you’ve overdosed on your courageous presidents hype.
@Acorvid
Dude, stop believing in stuff. If you study politics for more then a week you should be so jaded that you will never mention it again. Your precious bill will do nothing but make life slightly more painful, just like every other bill or law ever passed.
Forgot to mention:
I am re-doing my computer today. Re-installing ubuntu and Fedora. building from source all my programs, backing up all my data, should be fun.
Scott, Gary, DJ, Isiah,
These things matter profoundly. Social security legislation made a huge difference in securing a basic income for retirees. Before Medicare, a high percentage of American seniors with health problems lived out their last years in poverty. Before sweeping civil rights legislation, tens of millions of Americans were denied access to the basic human rights supposedly guaranteed by the constitution. Without environmental legislation, our streams and lakes would, by now, be fishless and unswimmable, and air in our cities would be unbreathable. Health care reform has the potential for a comparable effect.
Like it or not, the facts are that our current health care system is badly broken, getting worse yearly, and unsustainable. If you are blase about it, you haven’t been bludgeoned by it yet, with “yet” being the operable word, or you aren’t paying attention, or you just don’t care. Of course Obama’s not perfect, but he’s finally dealing with issues too long ignored. I respect and honor him for it, and I hope he succeeds. You, too, will benefit from health care reform, whether you support it or not.
I read this quote the other day and immediately thought of someone who comments in here at length – “Why is it that some people believe their argument is made stronger by making personal atttacks on others with a different view?”…
All I can say is, If the rest of the industrial countries system is so great, why do their leaaders always go to America when they get sick or need medical service? Could it have something to do with the quality of care available at home?
Acorvid I have 4 employees plus myself that will be joining the unemployed when this bill goes into effect. i was getting ready to start another company that would have employed another 2 – 3 people that is on hold tell the outcome of this vote. the bills restrictions and involuntary requirements on small businesses make it imposable to stay in business.
after i louse my business and louse my house can i move my family of 6 in with you since this wont effect you or whoever you work for.
how many out there can live on half your present income with 50% – 60% taxes that’s what you will get to take home.
PS my spell-check thinks your name should be acorn i thought that was funny. no disrespect intended.
^^^^lose X2 ^^^^^^ spell-check Loused it up. i am the product of public schools.
I read this quote the other day and immediately thought of someone who comments in here at length – “Why is it that some people believe their argument is made stronger by making personal atttacks on others with a different view?”…
Are you relating this to me, Richard? What “personal attacks” do you mean, and if so, why are you choosing to make a personal attack instead of responding to my arguments, and what does that say about you? As a matter of fact, relating to social issues and political leaders, aren’t you all about personal attacks?
“All I can say is, If the rest of the industrial countries system is so great, why do their leaders always go to America when they get sick or need medical service? Could it have something to do with the quality of care available at home?”
In general, this is the kind of nonsense promulgated by the naysayers who are willing to let our system deteriorate even further as long as it furthers their political goals. It is true that some of the most sophisticated surgery and equipment is available in the US (although a high percentage of Americans can’t afford it), and it’s true that wealthy foreigners sometimes come here to take advantage of it. But for every foreigner who comes here for access to sophisticated procedures, hundreds of Americans travel to Mexico or Canada or Asia for surgery because, even after their travel expenses, their medical expenses are less than they would be in this country, even with insurance.
A L N,
My understanding was that real small businesses with very few employees were likely to be exempt from the new law. Not sure about that, but I recall reading that somewhere.
Who farted?
This is better than Facebook. Full moon? LOL
Acorvid – You are one pompous ass, dude… Why should I try to have a discussion with somebody who thinks that the Democrats and Republicans are fighting over healthcare because they want a healthier America? It’s all about enslaving more people to the imperial federal government, and getting votes from the non-producers.
ALN – You might consider doing what I did with my company. I ran the numbers and decided that it was more economic to get rid of my 14 employees and hire temps. It has enabled me to keep on keeping on…
Honest I cant get myself to care. The government sucks and will just screw this up as much as it screws anything else up. The same people who brought us the DMV, the potholes in the roads, FEMA, and the last war are now going to be in-charge of our medical care. So I am not going to sit here and pretend that it can work, or pretend that if I get really involved in the political process I can make it work. It will fail, too me its only a question of how badly and what I can do to protect myself personally.
Leslie – Sure, if you’d like. Where do you want to meet?
Over paid arrogant people that run this country that will have free healthcare till they die dont care about anyone but themselves. I agree with isiah. Acor, if you wasnt so closed minded and long winded people would tolerate you better. But on a serious note, where’s Gus been?
Seems members of Congress refuse to give up the coverage they have and to be covered by the proposed legislation that they plan to force on the citizenry.
Another federal program brought to you by the liberals and Congress, featuring of course Harry Reid:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091206/ap_on_bi_ge/us_the_politics_of_timber
Gus has been posing for Christmas card pictures.
It was me, I farted.
Had to work so I’m late to the party, but it seems that no one was able to specifically dispute Acorvid’s 4 specific points with anything except insults or generalities. It’s completely astounding to me how many seemingly intelligent people can blindly follow talking points, without any basis of fact in what they are espousing.
Instead of making members of Congress give up their health care, why don’t we require Congress to give all Americans access to the same health care as it exists today?
Shhhh, I think everybody in the east has gone to sleep.
Lets all ban politics…it has no place here.Keep it funny and amusing,thats why we come here…i’m sorry America but the rest of the world couldnt give a rats arse about your politics.I am sure there are different and more suitable places to ring the bell about politics…there ive said it,now go and play.
I’ll keep digging jonco, trying to sort threw this bill has been hard. my democrat senator from Idaho said he was voting against it because he and his staff cant figure out all the confusing language in the bill. and the parts they can figure out will kill the economy in our state. I will be voting for him in the next election. he gets back to me within 1 day when i email a question of concern about a bill. he votes fiscal conservative and i respect a man that votes for his constituency and not just the party line.
P in B i agree with your last statement. they should get SSI for retirement, salary that is the average for the area they represent and only 2 terms.
tdc,
One of the more appealing aspects of B&P is that, on occasion, there is a spirited, interesting discussion on events of the day. For the most part, these are held with minimal name calling, and minimal mind changing, but I find them stimulating. I’m sure some of the regulars here who have
the wrongopposing points of view will agree with me. Sure, we all come for the humor, but all play fairly well together in this sand box.You want only humor? Spend your time at http://mystupidjokes.com/
pib – I agree with you definitely. Your posts are always civil and thoughtful. It’s “you know who” who doesn’t understand that comments don’t need to include “ridiculous”, blatantly”, “ignorant”, “nonsense”, etc., to make a point. I just find him to be insulting and predictible.
P in B – Every once in a while I find something you and I can agree on, and your last comment (7:11am) is one of them.
AllMost of us are adults here, and we can gather, laugh, agree or disagree, shake hands, have a beer, and then talk about all the B&P Gals again.tdc – This isn’t just a humor site…At the top of this page, click on the tab that says “About Bits & Pieces” and read Jonco’s first two paragraphs.